December 18, 2002 - Do I really need to tell you who Bruce Campbell is?

Isn't he enough of a cult figure that I can save my tired fingers some typing?

Who doesn't know him as Ash in the Evil Dead flicks? Or the titular character in the much-missed Brisco County, Jr.? Or from Hercules and Xena? Maybe you've read his book, If Chins Could Kill: Confessions of a B-Movie Actor.

He's Bruce Campbell, for cripes sake.

If you'd like to learn a little more about the myth behind the man behind the myth – conducted before the release of If Chins Could Kill – read on...

---

IGN FILMFORCE: We'll start as far back as possible. You grew up in Michigan, right?

BRUCE CAMPBELL: In Michigan, yeah... outside of Detroit.

IGNFF: Would that be in the suburbs of Detroit, then?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, it was the suburbs of Detroit – technically in Birmingham, Michigan.

IGNFF: It's listed as Royal Oak... Is it near Royal Oak?

CAMPBELL: Well, Royal Oak – I was technically born in Royal Oak, but my childhood was in Birmingham.

IGNFF: And how would you describe your childhood?

CAMPBELL: Damn near idyllic. We had woods around. The homes were not the sort of cookie-cutter homes – it was sort of an upper-middle class world where you could go play make-believe and there were no fences around the houses, and no motion-detectors, and there was no nothing. A kid could just be a kid.

IGNFF: No flood lamps...

CAMPBELL: We'd build tunnels and tree forts, and I played a lot of hockey, and we had a lot of winter activities. It didn't matter what season it was, there was always something cool to do.

IGNFF: And very loving parents, as well?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, very supportive. My father was in the ad business, and he wanted to be a painter. My grandfather worked for Alcoa Aluminum for about 40 years as a sales engineer, and the concept of my father being an artist was really a bad idea to him. So my dad was kind of suppressed, artistically, and when it came time for me to be interested in acting, my dad was all for it because he wanted me to have the benefit of the doubt. He didn't want to impose his will on me, and so I've got to make sure to not do that on my kids.

IGNFF: Has there been any inclination towards that, or are they too young?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, you know my kids fortunately have seen enough of my working life that they know it's not all...

IGNFF: Fun and games?

CAMPBELL: Well, they know it's not all blowjobs and limousines.

IGNFF: Right...

CAMPBELL: So, fortunately, they get scared off a little bit, because they see what a horrible, gypsy life I lead.

IGNFF: Where there any misconceptions that you had as a kid, as to what acting was?

CAMPBELL: I thought it would be fun all the time. It can be fun all the time, but there's a lot of it that's just drudgery and misery.

IGNFF: So what other interests did you have as a kid?

CAMPBELL: Outdoor activities, really. Tobogganing, sledding, hockey, baseball, soccer, football – you know, the whole deal.

IGNFF: So it was all mostly physical stuff.

CAMPBELL: Yeah, it was almost all physical.

IGNFF: Good student in school?

CAMPBELL: Okay student. In high school I did a 3.3.

IGNFF: Well that's not bad.

CAMPBELL: No, it's okay for someone who – I didn't really work that hard in high school, so I guess that's okay. It's typical – I did well in stuff that I liked, and I didn't do well in stuff that I didn't like. Pretty much standard procedure.

IGNFF: Right. And also – I guess I have to touch on it at some point, since it was a part of your childhood. When did you first meet the Raimis?

CAMPBELL: I was born in the same hospital as Sam Raimi – the William Beaumont Hospital in Royal Oaks. I met Sam in junior high – very briefly while I was with a friend of his – and he was dressed as Sherlock Holmes, playing with dolls. I thought he was a creepy weirdo, and I avoided him, officially, until drama class in high school, in 1975. Sam was very much into magic, and I was his assistant at a couple of magic shows. Then, I think Sam made a logical transition into film being the ultimate sleight of hand.

IGNFF: And this is what – late '60s, early '70s?

CAMPBELL: Well, for Sam, I think he started doing home movies in the early '70s. I did them in the early '70s, and we started making – then I met other guys in our neighborhood who had been making Super-8 movies longer than us, Scott Spiegel being one of them.... Josh Becker, who was Sam's neighbor... so there was a weird group of about six of us, who wound up teaming up and making Super-8 movies on weekends – almost every weekend.

IGNFF: And were you predominately always cast as the actor?

CAMPBELL: A lot of times, but the lines were blurred. Sam Raimi, and probably Spiegel, did as much in front of the camera as they were behind the camera, and I did some directing and stuff as well. We all did a little bit of everything, because we didn't say, "I'm going to do this, and I'm going to do that" – it was a little bit more of a hodge-podge.

IGNFF: So those lines were blurred amongst you all.

CAMPBELL: They were blurred.

IGNFF: So it was basically whoever was near the camera, picked up the camera, and whoever wanted a role...

CAMPBELL: Oh, whoever bought the film became the producer.

IGNFF: So there was already the role...

CAMPBELL: Yeah, whoever came up with most of the ideas, wrote it. Sometimes there were dual directing credits.

IGNFF: Was there ever any competition for certain roles?

CAMPBELL: No, but we'd bicker like siblings. "No, that's a stupid idea," or "No, that won't work – how about this, how about that?"

IGNFF: But it was very much a group effort?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, it was, because we really were just screwing around. None of us really dated that much, and that was our version of dating. I swear to God, in high school, I probably went on two or three dates, total. I didn't go to the senior prom... none of that stuff.

IGNFF: Was it just lack of free time, or lack of ambition?

CAMPBELL: Oh, I didn't know anything about girls, and they terrified me. Movies were easier... they were more fun – less confusing. Plus, we could get all the good-looking chicks in our movies, anyway.

IGNFF: I'm assuming that they gravitated towards that...

CAMPBELL: No, we used their jock boyfriends as studs, usually, and so the girls would always tag along to see – to be with their boyfriend on Saturday – so we really were surrounded by beautiful babes all the time, but we never went out with them. We would just usually throw a pie in their face. That said that we liked them ... And if we didn't like them, we'd use a semi-frozen pie.

IGNFF: Oh, that had to be fun. What were the genres that you gravitated towards?

CAMPBELL: It certainly wasn't horror, I'll tell you that. The horror film – are you saying in the Super-8 movies?

IGNFF: Yeah. By mentioning pies, comedy must have been one.

CAMPBELL: We did a lot of comedy, a lot of Three Stooges-type stuff. I know that Josh Becker was very inclined towards the Woody Allen side of things. Sam was very Marx Brothers like. Scott Spiegel and I were more apt towards Three Stooges sort of vaudevillian – just real broad slapstick. Then we got into other stuff – we did murder mysteries and war films, and the occasional drama would sneak in there. Those would usually fail.

IGNFF: Failed personally amongst your group?

CAMPBELL: No, they would fail the party test. Our version of a preview or an opening was at a party. If Six Months to Live made them laugh at a party, we knew we had a hit, based on if we could get kids' attention at parties.

IGNFF: What percentage of the movies were hits?

CAMPBELL: Oh, 70%.

IGNFF: And how much of it was laughing at the – not laughing with you, but laughing at it...

CAMPBELL: Oh, I'm sure 50% of it was laughing at it. But we didn't care – laughter was laughter. It didn't matter how you get it. It's like publicity – good or bad, it's publicity.

IGNFF: Right ... well, how many films would you say that you made together?

CAMPBELL: Oh, probably 50 some odd.

IGNFF: And how many of those still survive today?

CAMPBELL: Most of them do. We've transferred them to digital, and we have them remastered.

IGNFF: So they're all just waiting for potential embarrassing moments to be carted out?

CAMPBELL: No, they're just waiting to be sold on the Internet, which some of them already are.

IGNFF: How did they leak out? Was it just a friend of a friend...

CAMPBELL: I think when we made some transfers, somebody kept an extra copy for themselves.

IGNFF: Are you disappointed that some of those have gotten out?

CAMPBELL: Not really, I'm only disappointed at the quality. Some of the early transfers we did are the ones that got out. As we re-did them, nothing has gotten out, so everyone will see the worst copy of the worst copy of the worst copy.

IGNFF: So, in other words, people should really just hold off and wait for the deluxe box set from Anchor Bay.

CAMPBELL: Yeah, in about 10 years.

IGNFF: When you're ready to capitalize on everything, right?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, when we're retired and bored ... The problem is, ironically, we were going to include some of the Super-8s as part of the DVDs, because some of the features had a Super-8 precursor. But we couldn't use it, because we often just stole music to score on our soundtrack, and we can't really put that out on a DVD for sale without buying the rights to that music, and a lot of it was John Williams and a lot of the big guys.

IGNFF: So it would've been huge licensing fees.

CAMPBELL: Yeah.

IGNFF: Was there any thoughts of maybe dropping the sound on those segments?

CAMPBELL: Well, the problem is they were all mixed together.

IGNFF: Ahh, so the dialogue was over the...

CAMPBELL: A lot of them were two channels mixed. We only had two channels of sound, so whenever there wasn't something on the dialogue track, we'd put a sound effect and we'd put music on the other track, but we would also put other stuff on the music track. It got very complicated. It would be a technical nightmare to do, and so I think it will be our own little private collection.

IGNFF: Which, in some cases, I'm sure some of that stuff should just stay private.

CAMPBELL: Yeah, look, let's not kid ourselves – Spielberg has hours of footage that no one will never see. It's just him screwing around with a camera.

IGNFF: So, around this time, is it a bit apocryphal that you also babysat for the Raimis?

CAMPBELL: Well, I took Ted to cello lessons occasionally, but I think they made me do that because I ate dinner over there all the time.

IGNFF: Just out of convenience, because you were always filming?

CAMPBELL: Yeah. We'd shoot in Sam's living room, and eat dinner, and then whenever the Raimis were working and Sam was busy I'd pick up Ted at cello lessons. I think I've known Ted since he was about 9.

IGNFF: And how would you describe Ted at 9?

CAMPBELL: A spaz – an absolute, out-of-control spaz.

IGNFF: Annoyingly so?

CAMPBELL: Oh, totally. He was an annoying little brat.

	-© Renaissance Pictures Bruce Campbell in Evil Dead II

IGNFF: For which you've all gotten back at him for years since then, right?

CAMPBELL: He's been punished horribly ever since. Sam punished him horribly on Evil Dead II, and then I was able to punish him in a Xena episode that I directed.

IGNFF: Which one was that?

CAMPBELL: I've directed two with Ted – one was called "The King of Assassins," and the other's called "Key to the Kingdom."

IGNFF: What's the best way to torture Ted?

CAMPBELL: Make him work hard. Make him do multiple takes of things that he doesn't like. But Sam wins the prize – he put Teddy in this horrible monster suit that took five hours to get him in it, and he stuck contact lenses in his eyes, and he made him spin around in circles.

IGNFF: Oh, that was the Henrietta costume?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, it was horrible. It was really hard for Ted – it was 100+ degrees temperature, and I don't think Ted knew what hit him.

IGNFF: I must admit the video footage on the new DVD is rather disturbing when they show the draining of the sweat from his foot.

CAMPBELL: Oh, that's my favorite part.

IGNFF: What better example could there be, than that, of how painful that must have been.

CAMPBELL: That's why Sam cast him, though, because the regular actor was too old and wouldn't have held up. Sam was actually smart – Ted wanted to get into the Screen Actor's Guild, and that's how he got into the Guild. So he was willing to do anything.

IGNFF: And did he regret it, at any time?

CAMPBELL: No, not at all. He was a real trooper.

IGNFF: So there was never a revolt from Ted.

CAMPBELL: No, Ted's not a revolt kind of guy.

IGNFF: So most of high school, then, you did the home movies... Also, I'm assuming you were maintaining your sports activities and such?

CAMPBELL: No, I tapered off once I got into high school. Like, I wrestled in junior high, I played soccer for one year in high school – but then once I discovered plays, that was it. It was game over.

IGNFF: Okay, so you did do drama throughout high school...

CAMPBELL: I did, but it took me a while to get into it. The first season I didn't get cast in anything. The key was to get into drama class. If you didn't take drama from that teacher, you were never going to get into his play. So Sam and I both took his class, and then we both started getting into his plays. It was sort of a microcosm of things to come.

IGNFF: So it was a good training ground?

CAMPBELL: Yeah.

IGNFF: What have you taken from that drama class, if anything?

CAMPBELL: The guy was actually a good teacher – James Moll. A really good teacher, and really knew his stuff. We learned about lighting, and we learned about the technical side of things, and we learned about staging, and I got to be an assistant director and I did some set designs that sucked – you know, stuff like that.

IGNFF: An all-inclusive curriculum.

CAMPBELL: Yeah, he gave us a pretty practical knowledge of theater.

IGNFF: A lot of which you'd say was very useful when going off and doing the early low-budget features.

CAMPBELL: It was, but you know, real movies are so different than theater. The fun thing about theater was that it was more pure acting. It wasn't as technical. Movies are almost all technical.

IGNFF: So then sports tapered off, and drama took a much bigger role.

CAMPBELL: That's right – a much bigger role.

IGNFF: And you did go to college after high school, right?

CAMPBELL: I did for six months. I went to Western Michigan University, which was affectionately known as "Waste-tern", because it was a party school. I stayed for six months, and then got out and took a job as a production assistant.

IGNFF: What were your reasons for going to college? Did you feel an obligation to your parents to go?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, it seemed like the thing to do... I don't know. But within six months I knew that it was an absolute waste of time, and that I had learned more crapping around in Super-8 and doing high school plays than I did in college. I didn't even enroll for the classes. I had my cousin do it, because she lived in that city – I was too busy.

IGNFF: Did you go as a drama major?

CAMPBELL: I don't even know what I did. I went in as probably a liberal arts major, because I just told her, "Just get me theater classes and English classes, and just get me cool stuff."

IGNFF: And so after six months you realized that that just wasn't going to be useful?

CAMPBELL: I'd spent the previous summer, right after high school, as an apprentice at a professional theater in Northern Michigan – the Cherry County Playhouse. They had real actors – they were all TV actors who were all kind of on their way out ... there was Doug McClure, and Abe Vigoda, and Vicki Lawrence... and they all did a play every week. It was a really intense professional experience where the apprentices worked probably 18 hours a day, and then I got back into college and it was some joker with a beard and a pipe, walking around talking about the theory of theater. I was like, this is bulls**t – I'm out of here.

IGNFF: You wanted the reality of theater...

CAMPBELL: Well, I had tasted the real thing. Going back to theory after that was just worthless. Movies and television – you don't have to go to college for that crap. I worked with Tom Arnold a couple years ago, and the guy was a hog butcher ten years ago.

IGNFF: Well most of it is hands-on, isn't it?

CAMPBELL: It's all hands on, and there's also – college doesn't guarantee anything in the movie business. If you're going to be a doctor, yeah, you've got to go to college and you have to get a degree, and the same with a lawyer, but not an actor or a filmmaker.

IGNFF: When you have the audition, they don't exactly ask you "Where did you go to school and what did you major in"...

CAMPBELL: No – you either suck or you don't.

IGNFF: And so you came to that realization after six months – or did it drag on for a couple months beyond when you made the realization?

CAMPBELL: I realized it the second I got up there. It took me six months to get out of there.

IGNFF: So you left at semester?

CAMPBELL: Yeah. I went in the fall, and I left in January.

IGNFF: Where was the production assistant job?

CAMPBELL: That was with a company called NL Production. This guy, Vern Nobel... my dad was in the ad business, he had worked with Vern, and said, "Hey, this guy's a pretty cool director." It was a partnership of a director and a producer, and so they did a bunch of commercials. I wound up being a real go-fer for a solid year, doing all kinds of crazy stuff.

IGNFF: Was this out of Detroit?

CAMPBELL: Yup. It gave me a chance to learn the downtown area, actually getting into Detroit – where to buy filmstock, where to process it, where to edit it, how that works, how negative setting is done – the whole process. It was a great, fly-on-the-wall year.

IGNFF: And back to what you were saying, it was all hands-on experience.

CAMPBELL: Totally. It was the real deal. I got to sit on a set and watch professional actors screw up their lines left and right. And watch the temperaments, and to watch how things really are done – in a commercial view. It's still not feature films, but it's the same process. You still slate it and call action and shoot it in a certain way.

IGNFF: And stuff was still being shot on film then, for commercials...

CAMPBELL: Very, very much so.

IGNFF: So it's not like today where you have two different sciences of commercials shooting on, say, video.

CAMPBELL: Correct. Some of it was video – the low budget stuff that I worked on was video, and the higher budget stuff was film. Sometimes it was 16mm, sometimes it was 35. Sometimes it was 2-inch videotapes. So, needless to say, the cameras were much larger and bulky – you could have killed someone with those early video cameras.

IGNFF: Which sets did you prefer to be on? I'm assuming that video shoots would go faster than film shoots.

CAMPBELL: Yeah, to some degree. Commercials always went fast anyway, no matter what you did. But it was all fascinating to me – didn't matter if it was film or video, because some of the video shoots were some of the bigger things that we worked on.

IGNFF: And that lasted for a year?

CAMPBELL: Yeah.

IGNFF: And this would be, what, around '76 or '77?

CAMPBELL: Nah, this was '77 to '78, and then January of '79 is when I hooked up with Rob and Sam Raimi. That's when we first started to get the idea to make our first featured film, because we all collectively started to know where to get equipment, and how it all worked. We wanted to apply all the years of screwing around to, like, a real movie.

IGNFF: What had Sam and Robert been doing during that time?

CAMPBELL: We drove cabs for a while, too. I drove a cab, starting from early '78... well, it's weird, it sort of crossed over. I drove a cab for about a year. I know that Sam and Rob were P.A.'s, too. Sam did P.A. work on some of the shoots that I was on. It's just I was sort of staff in the company, and Sam would come in as a freelancer. Rob did a little bit of that, too. Sam was a busboy for a while... odd jobs... and Rob did a lot of fishing.

IGNFF: So neither of them went to college?

CAMPBELL: Sam went to college for a little bit of time. He went to MSU – I think for a year.

IGNFF: And discovered the same thing you did?

CAMPBELL: Yeah, exactly. By that time, we were ready to make a feature film. Rob is three years older, so I think he was just finishing up – I think he had a degree in Economics, and he wanted to change his major to fisheries and wildlife. So Rob was a little unsure of what he wanted to do in his life at that point. He met Sam at Michigan State University when Sam enrolled in '77. I think Sam went from '77 through the early part of '79 – like a year, year and a half... something like that. Then, we would go up on weekends to MSU and help Sam make some of his movies up there.

IGNFF: So he was still making movies...

CAMPBELL: We all were. We never stopped. Our Super-8 movies just got bigger. Starting about '77 through '79, we started to make full-length feature films on Super-8s. We did about three or four full-length features, ranging from about 60 minutes to about 75 minutes.

IGNFF: Comedies?

CAMPBELL: Not necessarily. One was a war film called Stryker's War, that later Josh Becker made into the feature Thou Shalt Not Kill ... Except it starred Sam. I couldn't be in it because I was a member of the Screen Actor's Guild by that point, because I'd started to act in commercials somewhere around that period. It was a very strange, convoluted time. We were all in our different ways trying to get into the film business, any way we could. We realized that by making a feature film ourselves, rather than going to Hollywood to get discovered – that was too weird of a concept for us – we thought, "Let's just make a movie in Michigan."

IGNFF: And have that be your calling card.

CAMPBELL: Yeah. And it was a good thing, too.

IGNFF: It certainly opened up a lot of doors.

CAMPBELL: It opened up every door. All roads can be traced back to Evil Dead. Every single one – every single opportunity.

---

Check back tomorrow for the second part of Ken's conversation with Bruce Campbell – in which Campbell discusses the filming, financing and distribution headaches of Evil Dead, the differing styles of the other Evil Dead films, working Darkman, and more.